the questions I asked are not that simply answered.

OK, so no answer here, but I do have a question....Why would you wreck what appears to be a pristine historical vehicle with a Weber Carb hack job? Absolutely mind-boggling to me. Experimenting? Sure, I get it...I like to experiment to, so why not use something that can be turned into an S10 Frankenstein (doesn't have to be a beater) but good grief why hack up this cream puff.

 

Well, since you asked...

1) I am not a hack. Does this look like a hack?

How about this?

How about this?

Or maybe this? Does a hack design his own Weber adapter because all the other adapters out there DO look like hacks?

Oh how about this one, which has a Weber on it too.

I think you get my point. I could post a hundred more pictures of my work, but I might get in trouble because it's all FORD stuff (as I mentioned already up yonder). If I were a hack I would have just ripped crap out of it all willy-nilly-like and never asked a single question about it. Or just go LS right from the get-go.

2) Because I'd like to take it from behind the ropes from the museum I have it stored in - and drive it among the smart cars out there without feeling like I'm in a game of Asteroids.

3) Because 74.93% of you guys on THIS SITE told me it would be the best thing I could do to wake this truck up, which happens to be stuck in 1984's attempt at making a carburetor run like it has fuel injection-level economy and emissions.

4) Because I am doing it in such a way making it 100% possible for someone to bolt all the stuff I'm taking off of it... back on... should they ever decide to put it back into the museum.

5) And finally - because it's mine and I can do with it whatever the heck I want to - with or without your help.

Hopefully that answers your question.

 

@Mad Max will know, I’d put at least $5 on it. Also @Yowakawaka recently put a Weber on his 2.8 Blazer.

 

I am hoping. I have read all the posts here I could find from others asking similar questions. There have really been no complete answers other than "It works really good" or "it's pretty straight-forward. If it were... I would not be asking the questions.

I am entering this upgrade with caution because I am unfamiliar with some of what GM did (mostly with the 700R4) and how it is tied into the lovely VariJet II. The Weber documentation SUCKS. Shoot, they say to insert a 1/4x1/4x5/32 TEE pointing into a particular direction, but never say what to hook up to it. And the TEE they supply for this is closer to 3/16x3/16x1/8" and there's nothing on this truck remotely close to this size vacuum line. Nothing.

So, you know, hopefully I hear from the S10 guru's out there. If not, I will study everything individually until I become the expert on it. I've been doing it all my life.

But thanks for putting the tag on both of them to let them know there is a question here they can hopefully answer. Much appreciated.

 

Ok, let me start by saying everything is REVERSIBLE!!!!
This is really a fine example and if you go Weber, just keep the original stuff and if it ever becomes a collectible (not likely) just reverse the process. You can always put the original equipment back on the rig.

So, ever heard of RESTOMOD?
It's called an improvement over the original. Period.

Check out Allstate carburetor in New York. I think they have a kit to make the TV cable work with a Weber.
They are on line.

Home Page - Allstate Carburetor

allcarbs.com

If you call them, they are pretty helpful.

If you still have issues, I can help you straighten them out.

Oh, and try not to take everything on this forum too seriously. I have found that you never know the talent at the other end of a keyboard. Sure, there are plenty of hacks out there, but there is also some incredible talent.

I have run into a few crazy fabricators - Pro...

 

Ok, let me start by saying everything is REVERSIBLE!!!!

Thanks Mr. Max. This ain't my first rodeo and generally I'm the guy, like you, on the giving end of things. So, I appreciate the giving.

I'm working through it all, finding what's good, what's bad, and what's needed and not needed. The TV cable bit was procured a year ago, just took this long to get all the other projects done so I can dedicate a week to this before I have to go onto other builds in the wings.

I fully understand "everything is reversible" and have been doing my best to keep it all in a box - just in case another purist out there gets their hands on it someday. It'll probably be after I'm dead, but if I had to guess... whoever gets this after me will install whatever the latest LS into it. Anymore it's a no-brainer - and I'm not even a Chevy guy.

I'd planned to video this, but sort of had the wind taken out of my sails yesterday and the best I will do is a quick tutorial using the pictures I'm taking. Maybe some video. We'll see.

I've cleaned up all the vacuum lines and will re-draw the vacuum schematic for how I did it and post it here for some future feller. Seems to be a recurring question, with little to no answers, but I think I have it all figured out. Usually do - because I am pretty good at what I do. Which is why (as a 65 year old guy with a bad back and neck, chronic like) I have to sadly decline many requests for me to do their build. Don't need the money much, but I do enjoy seeing their faces when they see what I've done for them. That makes it worth it, but it's hard enough to get my stuff done, much less anyone else's stuff.

Decided to make a new fuel line to save on the old fuel line. Tomorrow I'll find a place to mount the regulator and pressure gauge. I had already split the line to add an in-line filter last year. It had sat for 5 years, but it's still clean, so that's good.

This is still just test fitting the Weber. And trying to determine what tool I'll have to make to tighten these front nuts. I've already machined much of the flange on the nut to clear, because they didn't, but debating whether to mount the base, then the carb. Weber installed the base for whatever reason.

More to come...

 

I think this will be the final vacuum diagram for the WEBER install. The DECEL valve could have probably stayed - had mine been good. It seems, from what I've read, as long as I keep the drop to idle from occurring too quickly, like by using an old-school dash-pot, I will be OK.

I kept the EGR, for now, because it has a CAT and don't want it to glow red-hot. May delete on the thing someday... if it fails.

🔴RED DOTS=CHANGE

 

It is warped alright. But probably not like yours was. My Escape was a 2007, just the year before another body change. I liked it, generally. But after the transmission got fixed not long after the cruise-control went. I traded in for a Kia Soul, but couldn't do much with it after the job ended after so many years, so I traded it for the Transit Connect so I could go do small jobs (I also remodel houses). After I sold it back to the dealer I started looking for an old Datsun or Toyota pickup to build on, but when we showed up to an estate sale (we kind'a know the proprietors, and this was at their warehouse) they said there was free lumber out back I could have if I wanted it. So I drove my wife's brand-new CRV back there and started loading lumber at an angle from the back up to the windshield. She shook her head and walked back in and asked them if they knew anyone with a old mini-truck for sale. They opened a drawer and handed her a set of keys and told me to go have a look - out in the front parking lot.

Those are the original tires on the front, which apparently got rotated up there and the back tires were about 10 years newer. It had apparently been sitting there for about 5 years. I vaguely remember seeing it before, I think, but it was cleaner this time. Not by much though. You can see the white walls bleeding. It looks better with the new tires, but it could use about a 2" drop - minimum. We'll see.

I wish they had the trailer from the old feller who owned it. Not sure when this picture was taken, but it didn't have the canopy on it yet, or was off at the time.

My wife has probably been in your neighborhood in the Philippines. My back doesn't handle long flights well, at all, so I miss out on some of those travels. She has her twin sister and other friends to travel with, so I say, "Go. I'll make sure I don't burn the house down while you're away." But I do suspect finding parts might be tough.

Back to today, I'm plodding along here, but now I need to ask a question of the GM Masters. Installing this Weber has been interesting. It appears they didn't want it to be installed easily. The front DS nut was so close to the body you couldn't get a socket or a wrench on it. No way, no how. Had to take some of it apart and file away the corner (which they did do to the other side, at Weber) to do it. But it's on now and going to the next step of pressure regulator. Webers want 3PSI MAX!

More to come...

 

@Yowakawaka might be able to help you out with that. He has a Weber on his 2.8 and jumped thru all of the hoops to get it working correctly.

 

^^^ What he said

As I remember, the initial pull of the cable is the most important. The full throttle isn't as important.
Just to be sure, @Tranzman
He's the resident guru for transmissions.
If you set the cable as described in the videos, I am pretty sure you'll be ok.

 

^^^ What he said

As I remember, the initial pull of the cable is the most important. The full throttle isn't as important.
Just to be sure, @Tranzman
He's the resident guru for transmissions.
If you set the cable as described in the videos, I am pretty sure you'll be ok.

Full throttle at both places is a must. Idle can be adjusted easier.
The throttle should pull more down low than at the top. IE 50% plunger at trans with 3/8 throttle.
Better to have slightly late & firm than early & soft.
Torque causes the unit to slip slightly when its early & soft and you won't feel it. High pressure clamps the clutch, low pressure allows it to slip. That builds heat in a clutch pack & heat kills it. It can be a very slow death.
His picture showing the lever measurements is good, so it it got set up from that he should be good to go.

 

@Yowakawaka might be able to help you out with that. He has a Weber on his 2.8 and jumped thru all of the hoops to get it working correctly.

I just read his post and...

^^^ What he said

As I remember, the initial pull of the cable is the most important. The full throttle isn't as important.
Just to be sure, @Tranzman
He's the resident guru for transmissions.
If you set the cable as described in the videos, I am pretty sure you'll be ok.

... I just printed out the PDF Tranzman posted on his thread. Will study it some more after lunch.

Maybe most WEBER upgrades were on 5-speed manual transmissions?

 

I'm reading through the @Tranzman PDF and the first note was to do with centerline between stud and shaft was 1-3/32" - although the drawing says 1.109 +/- 0.16 (that's 1-7/64 +/-). So this is probably OK for that measurement:

Next (though not part of the PDF, per se, but may add some insight to the "what is" factor. I connected the TV Cable and pulled it until I just felt the slack go away and, I assume, the lever hit the plunger in the 700R4. This is the slack in the cable as seen at the carb:

Not sure, but looking at the other thread by @Yowakawaka this was something he saw and addressed (pan off) to get the lever to touch the plunger?

As I also mentioned, but is worth repeating, though it's hard to measure it seems the WEBER does not travel as far from idle to full throttle on the radius as does the 2SE. I'm am trying to decipher the 33% versus 67% part of the PDF, but since the drawing doesn't show these values relative to the instruction - I'm still lost there a bit.

Still studying...

 

I've been trying to make sense of the 33% and the 67% portion of @Tranzman PDF and so I set the 2SE up on the vise and also measured the WEBER. Both seem to have the same throw and the same position (TV stud) to the center-line of the rear mounting stud of the carburetor. Sort of tough to measure, but with enough machinist squares I think I confirmed that both have the same throw and the same TV stud location - relative to the TV cable bracket.

The measurement between marks (as seen on the vise) are 11/16 to the rear and 3/4" to the front of the throttle shaft. Weber is installed, so it's a lot harder to measure, but it is very similar.

As previously indicated, the TV Cable clicky-clack adjuster was out about 4 clicks, and has been reset back to zero.

Moving onto the pressure regulator until I hear back from someone further on this.

 

I would take off the tranny pan and set it that way. My transmission had an upgrade that made it really hard to push in the plunger completely. It’s worth the trouble to know it’s set correctly.

You should feel the slop in the gas pedal. What I did to remove the extra space was put a cable tie on the wire at the pedal. Works great!

Also, both the Weber and Rochester are supposed to have the same bracket. That’s what makes the TV cable work properly.

 

I just quickly verified I was reaching the end of the cable pull (plunger in 700R4 fully depressed) and found the click-clack adjuster was actually needed to come out about 2-clicks for that to happen. Now, of course, there is now about 1/2" of cable slack before I can feel something inside the transmission touch something. I assume (without pulling the pan, which I hope to leave alone) this slack would not be good.

I am watching oodles of videos on the subject, for now, but after confirming the Weber and the 2SE had very similar throws, and positions relative to the cable bracket, the cable - if it has to pull the cable to its stop position at full throttle, that the cable length (to the crimp on the cable) is correct for this throw. Of course, the cable could be stretched (unlikely) or my measurements are off (likely, but not by 1/2"), so will await the advice from @Tranzman before moving much more on this aspect of the install. I've got time to do it right, if there is such a thing.

Thanks for the reply. I did read your thread on this completely.

 

I am also assuming the slack I feel is just to the point the lever touches the plunger in the transmission. It's a definitive change in cable pull tension change. But I could be wrong about this, which is probably why you recommend a pan-off hook my peepers on it approach.

 

As I play and feel this cable move, I do believe I was incorrect on the slack I was feeling. I can for-sure feel slack, then I feel some sort of spring-loaded tension on the pull.

So, with the cable adjuster clicked out at FULL THROTTLE to where the plunger can NOT go in any further, and then released back to idle... and then the cable unhooked I very gingerly pull on the cable I can feel very loose then spring pressure on the pull. It's subtle, but it's clearer to me the more I did it.

So, with FULL THROTTLE set to FULL PLUNGER STOP set, and at idle (choke locked out) the cable will have to push the plunger about the amount of half the diameter of the TV Stud, as shown here.

As best I can tell, with the cable length (stock S10 cable) I can either have:

a) the TV Valve plunger pushed in this amount as seen ON THIS PICTURE (not the previous picture above) and full plunger at FULL THROTTLE or...

b) a "just touching" plunger at idle and the cable length restricting full throttle (and probably clicking out when I pass somebody the first time).

Can't have both. Which is worse? Do I split the difference since the cable length can not be adjusted.

As I understand it after having read and watched dozens of nonsensical videos (most of them), measuring all the stuff I have, I can click out the adjuster a bit and get this to reach, but in doing so the plunger will not go to full depth in the transmission at WOT, or I give it the slight pull here (it'll be more with the choke on), which as I understand it increases the at-idle shift pressure. And shift points. Or split the difference.

 

Another good source for info is Bow Tie Overdrives, as they only do GM overdrive automatics, and have been at it for a long time. They make several kits for TV cable hookups. About the only one they don't list is for Webers, but they may have some good information to help you.

 

You know... Someday, somebody, is gonna read all this and say, "I'm glad that guy didn't leave the chat..."

I can assure that feller, or fellette, the tutorial I'm going to create from all this "brain exercise", will be worth it.

This has been interesting and even at my age, it's always fun to learn new things. But as I'm ought to do, often, is test so - many - theories... until you find the one that makes sense.

I've been wrenching with my dad since I was 6. Thanks Dad. He was more an electronics guy (Army Radar tech), but I enjoyed mechanics more than electronics. Even though I do both now.

When I was 12 I entered a "troubleshooting" contest in the regional FFA competition, 100's of kids, and won gold-medal by finding more things wrong with a tractor (issues created by the various school instructors) than were created by those instructors. Having those instructors come up behind me and put their arms around my shoulders saying "Here's the young man who found more things wrong with that tractor than we did.." it's one of those "core" memories I'll take to my grave. So, anyway, this is good for the brain. Dealing with people sometimes... not so much. But I digress...

As for the S10... I think I'm over thinking it.

1) I've checked the geometry between the WEBER and the 2SE. They are pretty much identical.

2) When I set the clickity-clack adjuster I sort of did it manually. I didn't use the Weber throttle linkage to actually set it. I sort of pulled on the cable by hand a click at a time. I might have it one click too tight. That was a mistake, I believe.

3) I've watched so stinking many YouTube University videos, I am, for sure, going to create a new one and post it on my channel. Utter nonsense, most of it. What's Roger Doin Now? We'll see.

4) I'm pretty convinced I can feel when the lever-arm contacts the plunger (with my micrometer instincts). I believe I am just "that close now" - and as @Tranzman said in his PDF (in the pictures section of that document) it's OK to have the slightly depress the TV valve. Slightly. Better than the alternative of being loose.

4A) As I understand it, the plunger in the body of the transmission travels X-amount. The cable travel at the carburetor has to travel that same amount. WOT is the stop on both the carburetor and the transmission valve (the plunger). If the cable is stock, you can only adjust to the WOT position, and it should not be used to adjust anything else. With an aftermarket cable you adjust the "cable clamp" to set the cable length and travel. Sort of harder to do, since it's a chicken/egg sort of thing. Bottom line is this: Cable travel must equal the travel of the TV plunger in the transmission, which is where the geometry takes place - making sure the cable has a linier pull. No slack at the end, and only spring tension at idle (assuming correct cable length.)

5) I am going to go back to "zero" tomorrow, use what I now know, and use the WOT setup, and let it ride. I assume, (and hope it doesn't make an ass out of me) this shift-point issue causing the transmission to fry... I would notice fairly quickly should it be evident - before I smoke the thing.

And finally...

6) if I do smoke the thing...

7) "Honey, I've decided the S10 needs a 5-speed."

I assure you, she hated my 63 Ranchero when I did the first V8 swap - and moved from the British Dagenham 4-speed behind the 6 to the automatic behind the V8. She loves the 5-speed in it now. So it'll be an excuse to walk the wrecking yards, even if it takes another 6 months to get back to it.

8) win-win.

More to come...

 

Almost Done

I did reverse all the TV cable adjustments and just used the throttle linkage as the fulcrum. I can tell, after it is set that way, there is just a smidgen of play between the lever in the transmission and the TV plunger. A few thousandths play, at best. When the choke is set, maybe about .050 pressure on the plunger. We'll see how it goes. I did video on that, and lots of static images and will post a link to the video, when done. It'll be linked in the official tutorial I create when this is all done.

Took a bit of staring and digging through my stash of NORS carb parts to find a dashpot I liked. This dashpot will work perfect. After bending up a bracket, pressing in a nut-sert, it seems to fit the bill. I hope this will offset the issue I may have had due to the DECEL valve being bad. It's a new muffler and a 40 year old CAT - don't want to blow them up.

And this bracket has a stand-off with a star-washer under each. I will not rotate under that minimal force.

Apparently, Weber didn't exactly "accommodate" for a return spring. Nowhere. So, with the dashpot it made it tough to clear for the original location, so I drilled a small hole in the throttle bracket and hooked it up there and to the unused hole on the cable bracket. So, rear-pull instead of front-pull. I have to still deburr the holes in the morning (minimize knife-edge wear into the spring), but easy peazy.

Next, you need a pressure regulator. The Weber wants only 3PSI fuel pressure, so there were a couple studs on the Proportioning Valve bracket. Perfect spot.

I guess they wanted you to use non-self-tapping screws to install their bracket. I mean who has 12-24 taps anymore...

A little nod to @Tranzman in this pic.

Where's @Tranzman ?

So, tomorrow, I will hook up the choke wire, and paint the "seconds" air cleaner bracket. And I can see why it is a second. Wonky Donkey. But I will show the modification and issues I found wrong with it (unassociated to the fact is was both a second and unplated) when I get it installed. Easier to show then...

... but... you can see two counter-sunk holes in the bracket. Had to scour my local ACE Hardware store (AKA my garage) to find 2 metric counter-sunk screws to install this. You'll see why tomorrow. Oh, and they must have been training their welder. Had to file away a lot of that weld in the center bracket.

More to come...

 

Randy hasn't been on for a couple of days...must have over indulged on the ribs.

 

Actually it was Dr. visits, work, building 2 different transmissions & selling a house. I really didn't think that at 68, I would have to burn the candle at both ends & the middle...

 

Well, as Weber's usually do, it started the second it got gas, and though I think it's still on the rich side (runs good with only half-turn out in each air bleed screws), and it shifted reasonably well (didn't get it much past 40 yet), but when it did shift up into third at part-throttle and I attempt to accelerate a bit - it pinged.

So, not fully familiar yet with even what is left of the emissions, so I first pulled the fresh air feed off the snorkel and sure enough, the heat-riser was on the heat-intake cycle. So, maybe the temp sensor in the intake is also faulty. It's the hot air off the manifold that should operate that, and it was plenty hot to have shut that off - and it wasn't.

I decided to check timing anyway, and it is set to 12btdc, as per 1984 specs. Hmm.

So I pulled the bulk connector and connected to the bottom port and tested each port at operating temp. Matches vacuum source on the 2nd from bottom on the tree, but neither of the top two ports seem to pass any vacuum signal.

I know high intake air temps can cause detonation, so I plugged that heat-riser port and took it on a drive. Detonation has ceased. 1 issue down.

But, that vacuum tree does NOT appear to be passing vacuum to the two upper ports (1 of which feeds the distributor). I'm not sure how it is supposed to function (yet), but from what I have read so-far it simply didn't allow vacuum to pass until it reached temp, not that it does some, but not all. I understand it is an emission thing, so may just find a non-temp tree in my stash and run them all together even when cold.

I know there is not much point in doing anything tuning-wise until I have this all sorted. Other than that, it runs OK. Shift points seem decent, though a little stumble off idle on acceleration, but with only mechanical advance - not gonna read much into that.

I did temporarily bypass the tree and go directly from the Weber to the vacuum advance hard-line and the vacuum advance on the distributor is good.

Oh, and as for the air cleaner bracket, and the counter-sunk screws, there is no way the air cleaner, or the gasket, would have worked with their studs and NyLocks on that side of the bracket.

More to come.

 

Well, bypassing the tree with a 3-way tee the engine is definitely happier. The off-idle acceleration is much improved. And though I'm not yet doing more than driving around the fairly busy neighborhood, the shift-points may be a little fast, especially in the 25mph zones. I'm not at all familiar much with how the truck shifted before, since it was such a dog (I can guess the faulty DECEL Valve, a funky heat-riser, and the vacuum advance probably being inop due to the temp-controlled vacuum tree, I'm going to have to wait for @Tranzman to ring in to see what he thinks about the shift points. In a 25mph zone, should it never shift into 3rd?

I've not had a helper yet to test WOT using accelerator pedal, versus setting it using simply the gas pedal, which seems lower to the floor now, meaning it might be shy of WOT relative to what I can do manually on the carb. Does this matter in relation to setting the TV clicky-clack adjuster? Every adjustment of this on the YouTube is at the carb.

At a stand-still for now. But will keep researching.

 

And, just to be... me...

1) I understand the distance of travel for the cable at the carburetor is determined by the radius of 1.109". This is fixed. You just need to make sure the radius is correct and the pull is straight.

2) The "stock" TV cable travel length is fixed, but you can adjust the point to which it ends. This needs to be at the point where the plunger in the transmission is fully seated and the throttle has reached WOT.

3) Aftermarket cables required you to "play with" this cable length by allowing you to set it. Seems you'd need to know the engineering travel distance. (I saw a video saying it's exactly 1.25"). Sure... but is it.

So, based upon the fact, the carburetor uses a fixed radius, the only variable after that is cable length via the cable crimp and what degree the cable can climb towards WOT on that radius. I assume this to be the 33/67% thing you mention. The image on your PDF doesn't display this, and might be something I edit when I use it in my "This is how to install a Weber" - which is needed. Badly. I can rightfully assume cables can stretch more than shorten, so considering all my geometry is correct, my cable could be stretched enough to either be replaced, or the adjustment given a click to compensate for that, or a shim of some sort added to the cable between the crimped stop and the plastic clip. This is what @Yowakawaka did using a zip tie.

Thanks for your understanding.

 

I have re-read my previous two post and did some editing after staring at things this morning, and having a car buddy come and help me verify my hamster and I have the same ability to achieve WOT. The pedal hits WOT, but it's mashing the carpet a bit to do so. May have always. I've driven the truck all of 50 miles since I had it - and that was all 12 months ago.

I'm going to sneak up on the cable somehow. Not a zip tie, that's too much I feel. But I have some .041 stainless wire. I may make a crimp shim using that. See if it moves the shift point at all.

Thanks

 

This Sonnax part may help your dilemma some.

TV Cable Corrector Kit - AS1-01K

In most GM and Ford transmissions with cables, including GM TH200, 200-4R, TH200C, 4L60 (700-R4) and Ford AOD, AXOD, the throttle valve cable pulls out of ad

www.sonnax.com

 

After my buddy left (we both talked about this for a couple of hours) I decided to do the feel test again while it was cold again. This is based upon setting the TV cable using a WOT action at the carb. So, I unclippd the TV cable and pulled it out until I felt the lever just hit the plunger in the transmission. This is how much additional pull on the cable will be required to hook the clip. Just over the width of the TV stud. This means I am pushing the plunger in some, already.

I did feel the shifts were a bit harsher yesterday than I remembered from last year, but if I add any more pull I would think it would only get harsher yet.

By pulling the ratcheting cable stop out another click - this (I think) lessens the idle pressure, but may make the WOT setting less as well.

I guess the question is whether this amount of pull (as shown in the picture to get the clip to seat) is a reasonable amount of additional plunger movement at idle. I couldn't measure and take a picture, but it is about 5/32 of cable pull yet to go - pushing on the TV plunger.

Of course, asking the GOOGLE machine which direction increases of decreases shift points as an unintended consequence of TV pressure, says increasing pressure moves out the shift points. So if my shift points are already low, I expect lessening the pressure by clicking out one more click, would exacerbate the low shift point.

I'm this close to hunting down a wrecked S10 with a 5-speed. Momma Mia.

 

Yes that is the purpose of the spring and clip. It may require a new adjustment.

Pull the slide adjustment toward the carburetor for less pressure/earlier shifts. Away from the carburetor for more pressure/later shifts.

Here's the instruction sheet for that Sonnax part. Read trough that, it may help.

https://d2q1ebiag300ih.cloudfront.net/uploads/part/2765/AS1-01K-IN.pdf?v=1638309392689

Keep in mind the TV cable is not intended to adjust shift speeds. It is designed to adjust line pressure rise, the earlier/later shifts are a result of increased or decreased TV pressure.

To make a simple explanation on this:
The transmission shifts on a governor pressure vs line pressure.
Governor pressure is on one end of the shift valve, it raises pressure from 0 psi to 55-60 psi to match road speed.
Line pressure goes from 70-180 and is varied by TV pressure. This pressure is on the other end of the shift valve. The governor pressure has to overcome line pressure to move the shift valve.
To make a 1-2 shift at 15 mph the TV pressure will be approx 70psi and the governor pressure will be approx 15psi . The size of the valves allows the gov pressure to overcome the TV valve and it pressure.
To make a 1-2 shift at 35 the TV pressure raises at the TV vale to approx. 125psi and it takes 35 psi of governor pressure to overcome that TV pressure and move the shift valve.
Here is a copy of the TransGo 700R4 SK instructions. It will help with what valves look like. Page 7 is where the Shift valve & TV shift valves are shown.

Hey Tranzman - I do appreciate you. I do the same exact thing over on about a half-dozen Ford Falcon groups, which those and a host of Mustangs and F100s being the normal flow of cars and trucks I've had and built over the past 50 years. My first build being a 1951 Ford 8N tractor - at age 11. So, sitting and typing up replies, and often being the guy tagged to "Help Roger!" So I do appreciate you.

I'll be honest, a part of me almost wanted to agree with that first feller who replied... although I've been building cars and trucks, something in the 1980's was NOT the era I wanted to build... anything. I knew enough about that era of vehicle to know... it might end up getting hacked to make it a reasonably reliable vehicle. And, being a Ford guy all my life, doing Chevy stuff has been like a crash-course in Greek. But I am a fast-learn. I got some mechanical aptitude gene or something. And honestly, I have never built an automatic, not due to capabilities... I just thought it too closely resembling an autopsy. Blood and guts everywhere. Never felt that way with gearboxs.

I build old British Dagenham 4-speeds to keep them going for people who need them. I collect them and when I have about 6, I build one. They ain't cheap. It takes about 6 cores to find enough good parts. It's the only era-correct 4-speed you could put behind a little Falcon or 6-cylinder Mustang. Parts for them are nearing unobtainium status. Gaskets are about it. I know them. It takes about 6 years to collect those 6 cores, so I'm not cranking them out. I need one more to make it worth my while. Storing them dry for 6 or 7 years. Fun.

As for the S10, and my attempt to bring this foreign object back to life, I knew when I bought it, being a 1-owner, low-milage, time capsule... it would beg me for a pristine return to original. But I also knew it was going to be in that era to where getting some parts were going to be a challenge, and it would still drive like a 1984 Chevy 2.8L Automatic. And now you're driving with electric cars and turbo-charged sling-shots, in a pretty big city, and I said after a couple long drives... I said, "Oh hell no." People ain't got no patience for old guys like me driving those trucks or cars who can't get out of their own way.

Anyway, it way better now. I feel, based upon a better understanding of this system, the Weber better matches the 33/67

Yes that is the purpose of the spring and clip. It may require a new adjustment.

Pull the slide adjustment toward the carburetor for less pressure/earlier shifts. Away from the carburetor for more pressure/later shifts.

Here's the instruction sheet for that Sonnax part. Read trough that, it may help.

https://d2q1ebiag300ih.cloudfront.net/uploads/part/2765/AS1-01K-IN.pdf?v=1638309392689

Keep in mind the TV cable is not intended to adjust shift speeds. It is designed to adjust line pressure rise, the earlier/later shifts are a result of increased or decreased TV pressure.

To make a simple explanation on this:
The transmission shifts on a governor pressure vs line pressure.
Governor pressure is on one end of the shift valve, it raises pressure from 0 psi to 55-60 psi to match road speed.
Line pressure goes from 70-180 and is varied by TV pressure. This pressure is on the other end of the shift valve. The governor pressure has to overcome line pressure to move the shift valve.
To make a 1-2 shift at 15 mph the TV pressure will be approx 70psi and the governor pressure will be approx 15psi . The size of the valves allows the gov pressure to overcome the TV valve and it pressure.
To make a 1-2 shift at 35 the TV pressure raises at the TV vale to approx. 125psi and it takes 35 psi of governor pressure to overcome that TV pressure and move the shift valve.
Here is a copy of the TransGo 700R4 SK instructions. It will help with what valves look like. Page 7 is where the Shift valve & TV shift valves are shown.

Thanks - think the Sonnax bit should resolve my "concern." I understand it more than I understand their instructions.

I did a lot of measuring stuff and feel the Weber did way better at matching the "geometry" you described in your TV Cable PDF. I'm pretty sure it's a minor difference if any, so I think the spring-kit will get me by. The trans-kit instructions will be interesting reading though.

As always, thanks for the reply.

 

Hey Tranzman - I do appreciate you. I do the same exact thing over on about a half-dozen Ford Falcon groups, which those and a host of Mustangs and F100s being the normal flow of cars and trucks I've had and built over the past 50 years. My first build being a 1951 Ford 8N tractor - at age 11. So, sitting and typing up replies, and often being the guy tagged to "Help Roger!" So I do appreciate you.

I'll be honest, a part of me almost wanted to agree with that first feller who replied... although I've been building cars and trucks, something in the 1980's was NOT the era I wanted to build... anything. I knew enough about that era of vehicle to know... it might end up getting hacked to make it a reasonably reliable vehicle. And, being a Ford guy all my life, doing Chevy stuff has been like a crash-course in Greek. But I am a fast-learn. I got some mechanical aptitude gene or something. And honestly, I have never built an automatic, not due to capabilities... I just thought it too closely resembling an autopsy. Blood and guts everywhere. Never felt that way with gearboxs.

I build old British Dagenham 4-speeds to keep them going for people who need them. I collect them and when I have about 6, I build one. They ain't cheap. It takes about 6 cores to find enough good parts. It's the only era-correct 4-speed you could put behind a little Falcon or 6-cylinder Mustang. Parts for them are nearing unobtainium status. Gaskets are about it. I know them. It takes about 6 years to collect those 6 cores, so I'm not cranking them out. I need one more to make it worth my while. Storing them dry for 6 or 7 years. Fun.

As for the S10, and my attempt to bring this foreign object back to life, I knew when I bought it, being a 1-owner, low-milage, time capsule... it would beg me for a pristine return to original. But I also knew it was going to be in that era to where getting some parts were going to be a challenge, and it would still drive like a 1984 Chevy 2.8L Automatic. And now you're driving with electric cars and turbo-charged sling-shots, in a pretty big city, and I said after a couple long drives... I said, "Oh hell no." People ain't got no patience for old guys like me driving those trucks or cars who can't get out of their own way.

Anyway, it way better now. I feel, based upon a better understanding of this system, the Weber better matches the 33/67


Thanks - think the Sonnax bit should resolve my "concern." I understand it more than I understand their instructions.

I did a lot of measuring stuff and feel the Weber did way better at matching the "geometry" you described in your TV Cable PDF. I'm pretty sure it's a minor difference if any, so I think the spring-kit will get me by. The trans-kit instructions will be interesting reading though.

As always, thanks for the reply.

This is a first time I've heard it like this.
"I just thought it too closely resembling an autopsy. Blood and guts everywhere."
Gave my wife and I a good laugh!!
Speaking of old Fords. I have an old C4 green dot VB if you know of anybody that's interested.

 

Great looking work! I like where you mounted that fuel regulator. Probably have to use that one.

Whats the dashpod for? I dont think I’ve ever seen one before.

 

Hey, thanks. I'm still waiting for the Sonnax doo-dad @Tranzman recommended, but otherwise it's done. The truck does have quite a bit more pep. So, that's good.

In the process found almost every bit of the emission stuff had failed. The temperature vacuum switch in the air cleaner would be nice to have, but dang, they want $85 for one. Wish I had more wreckers around me. But hope to find one. But, what you see on the carb is what all automatic transmission cars had. A dash pot. It prevents the idle from dropping to zero in an emergency stop, generally. Regular traffic braking isn't much of a concern, but a 65 to 0 brake could stall the engine, which might not be be the safest result from that. So a dash pot is a regulated value to allow slowly coming to idle. Why I used it is because in the emissions years they used a DECEL valve, which did something (I think it was a lean condition introduction) which minimized the potential for a backfire, which blows up the muffler. Figured this would do the same.

Long answer.

 

I received the Sonnax bit and installed it, did the WOT adjustment and went for a drive. Shift-points seemed pretty good, but... now the Weber is stalling on just about any attempt to accelerate. That wasn't happening on the last drive, before installing the Sonnax cable corrector recommended by @Tranzman.

I knew I was going to need to tune-on the Weber more than I have (which has been zip/nada/nothing other than A/F, which is in to about a 1/2-turn out, so it's probably over-jetted) but before I do that I'm going to remove the Sonnax bit of kit and readjust it to where it was before - just to see if "it" is the root of the "new" what-is. This is all still sort of VooDoo to me. TV cables and such.

I unfortunately had to put it out of the garage yesterday to work on yet another S10. A friends '97 with a list of things to fix.

I know. Somebody needs to check my temperature.

 

@Tranzman - as I mentioned above I installed than Sonnax cable corrector. It seemed to help with the shift, but the Weber didn't behave as my last drive, so hard to gauge accurately. The instructions from Sonnax indicated the normal acceleration would not overcome the spring pressure until the cable reached the TV plunger stop, then compress (but sort of said so in some foreign language). I noticed after adjusting it using the typical WOT adjustment, the spring does, in fact, compress (somewhat, but not completely. It compresses about 25%) against just the TV plunger spring - and perhaps the cable friction. This may be a contributor to the issue I mention above, stalling, but not sure. I am in possession of about 753-million springs, so I may look for a stiffer spring.

I would think you want the TV cable to move in a linier relation to the movement of the throttle cable - even with the cable corrector. Thoughts?